Matrix community support channel

Hi,

my second home server project after a Seafile server was about providing an own instant messenger and I ended up using matrix (which combines the freedom of XMPP with the look&feel of Slack, just not proprietary / centralized but as federated network like XMPP… some would call it a “hipster IRC” :wink: ). I run a matrix node since several months and just wondered if there is a Seafile channel in the matrix universe but didn’t found anything Seafile related.

Although I think that a forum like this is the much better way for supporting the community in long term a messenger based platform can be something “nice to have” so I founded a channel which you can find under #seafile:yuhu.ddns.net with your matrix client.
The channel / room can be visited as guest as well using a web app, for example: https://riot.im/app/#/room/#seafile:matrix.org

The channel has a RSS bot providing Seafile news.

See you!

@Seafile devs: The description of the channel indicates that it is an unofficial community channel but if there are any problems that I use the Seafile logo just let me know and will change it. Although let me know If you (maybe one day) want to take over the channel, I just founded it because I didn’t found any existing one (there is no problem changing the channel address later).

Matrix is shit. Especially since matrix.org was hacked and you don’t know which packages are without viruses, you shouldn’t use them. What’s so bad about an IRC channel on freenode? I like Slack, but if don’t have to organize it’s just bloat. Seafile also had a Gitter channel long ago, no one uses it.

So E-mail is shit because Yahoo was hacked (severa times)?
Or Seafile is shit because the server of a friend of mine was hacked?

You never know but thx to FLOSS: Compile it on your own. Like you do for the Seafile client because of the “chinese government”, don’t you? :wink:

Nothing is bad about an IRC channel in freenode if you like

  • centralized communication networks
  • a client look&feel of the “1980s”

You like Slack which is a proprietary “walled garden” but you don’t like a communication protocol like Matrix which provides you (almost) the same features but - in contrast to Slack - full autonomy because you can host your own server as part of a federated network?
Furthermore Matrix provides:

  • a reference client (riot.im which is available for all platforms and provides audio/video telephony
  • a communication network with a great availability: If a Matrix server which was the original hoster of a room (group/MUC) goes offline this doesn’t cut off the communication to users of other Matrix providers because the rooms are synchronized over all participating servers (in contrast to IRC/XMPP). Show me one open messenger protocol providing such a great feature.

Thx for the information, I will bridge it to the Matrix channel.

However: If you don’t like Matrix nobody forces you to use it.

Unfortunately the Gitter Integration for Matrix reports:

Bridge returned HTTP 500 Internal Server Error: Guest access not allowed

@daniel.pan: Would you allow/enable guest access for https://gitter.im/haiwen/seafile so that I can bridge the Matrix channel to Gitter?

We don’t use gitter. The https://gitter.im/haiwen/seafile maybe created automatically by Gitter during their initial marketing effort.

Oh, okay. Better you close the Gitter channel then because it looks official but unmaintained.

It is removed now.

I first didn’t want to answer, but latest news forced my to.

Yes, they are. Not Seafile, but the security of your friend’s server. And I would never use Yahoo, I’ve my own Mail server.
And Matrix is shit, too. Applications should be designed for one purpose, not a combination of everything. And one Account for one instance, even Slack(just as reference) does this. No one needs a network. This caused new security problems, which the devs just ignore.

Matrix isn’t decentralized, just a network. Steem is decentralized. What’s bad about IRC’s look you have everything you need. It’s just not as “cool” as matrix, but works reliable instead.

Slack is ment as a reference. And yes I use Slack, because our communication is not always my decision, but I also use RocketChat, and secured Slack with AppArmor, so it can’t spy on my Computer. RocketChat is just designed for one purpose, what makes it much better.

What when no one participates at your channel?

No I used a decompiler :yum: . But normally, there should be reproducible builds. You can’t test them easily, but I can’t find anything about that for matrix. Seems they give a shit on that.
Edit: I used a diassembler for Seafile, I really always compile the seafile client myself, thanks to ABS.
Matrix is IMO just a bad solution and not decentralized, with many security holes. Busy on Steem Blockchain does exactly what you believe Matrix would do.

I’m sorry but your second statement is even more undifferentiated than your first on, in detail:

That is a contradiction in terms. First you say you can blame a software/protocol standard for an implementation of it, then you say you can not.

So email (as a communication standard for federated networks) can be happy that your opinion about it is not as “sophisticated” as your opinion about Matrix (which is a communication standard for federated networks as well). :wink:

Maybe you still don’t understand that “Matrix” and “matrix.org” are two different things.

Generally I support the idea of KISS and thx to open standards there are several Matrix clients which less functionality in comparison to riot.im (which is just the reference client of the Matrix devs).

In case of messengers I’m deeply thankful that there is a multi porpose client like Riot because I want to provide my (international) familiy a free(dom respecting), secure and easy to use way to communicate around the world (which includes audio/video telephony to avoid Skype). Currently there is only Matrix in combination with Riot offering this demands for any commonn platform (saying this I point on XMPP which is a great messenger protocol as well but with a currently unacceptable support for iOS and no support for audio/video telephony in any usable client (like Conversations)). And no, I can not and would never force my “grandparents in asia” to install something like “Plumble” to use a mumble server just because I want to respect KISS and separate text communication from voice communication.

I don’t get your point: You can have as much as Matrix accounts as you want (although Riot doesn’t support multi accounts yet but this is on the roadmap.
Related to Slack: I was forced to use Slack just for 3 months last year but there was no real multi account support. Slack was at this time designed to be used in “workspaces” and for each workspace you needed an account. In Matrix the counterpart of a Slack-workspace is a “community” but in contrast to Slack you can be part of multiple communities with the same Matrix account / Matrix ID.

If you want to live in walled gardens go for it. I prefer freedom as the email network offers (btw: something Seafile should implement too: Feature: Seafile Server Federation).

Since it seems you understand german language I recommend you to read Conversations: Sicherer Android Messenger related to the problem of “walled gardens”.

Last point: If you say “no one needs a network” why do you host your own mail server (or do you just hosted it for internal communication without any federation)?

@Mods: We need a facepalm emoji!

The security problems were indeed ignored - for two hours! Maybe two hours are an acceptable time to fix a software problem? :wink:

However: If federated/deventral networks “create security problems” so we should go for centralized networks like Slack then I propose you stop running your own Seafile server because I think GoogleDrive/MS OneDrive will do a much better job in terms of IT security compared to single admins like us.

What I want to say: Free(dom respecting) software and protocols are not about security, they are about freedom. The latter is much more essential for me (because who gives up freedom for security will loose both in the end). That’s why I prefer federated messaging protocols because in federated networks I don’t force users to use a certain provider.

When did I claim that Matrix is decentralized? It is federated, which is in my opinion a big difference.

As I said: Depending on your demands IRC may be a nice way of communication but IRC doesn’t fit my demands as I explained above (missing federation, no audio/video telephony to replace Skype).

“works reliable instead” is again a quite undifferentiated statement. What do you mean? The server software? The overall network?
In both aspects Matrix is very reliable (though it needs mor hardware power in comparison to XMPP).
What is “cool” and what is not cool is a very personal point of view as well which can cause very irrational decisions. For example: I’ve experienced that people refused using Riot because they didn’t like the name. oO

We are often forced to use Software we don’t like (in my case: Software disrespecting my digital freedom by forcing me to use proprietary software and standards). My point is that you blame a freedom respecting open protocol like Matrix because …well, I don’t know because your points are (for me) not very sophisticated.

Good boy. A “works for me” attitude is always very helpful for the mass of people out there (like using “AppArmor”).
Anyway: RocketChat was on my list for software hosting a messaging service on my own as well but at time of testing (mid 2017) there was no RocketChat client on F-Droid (but there was Riot.im for Matrix - I only use Apps provided via F-Droid). Beside this RocketChat seems to be a very nice freedom respecting messenger. Maybe it needs less hardware power in comparison to Matrix but this is an “admin problem” (not a “user problem”) - as long as my small server can participate in the Matrix network and the Dev support is such great as in the moment there is no need for me to change the protocol (but always good to know that there are alternatives like RocketChat - and as long as we can bridge both networks there is no need to blame each other which free protocol is better, we should be happy that people are willing to use freedom respecting communication).

Strange question. If no one participates in a room initially hosted by my server then no one except me is affected, of course. Means: There is no problem because I have my chat history in my client on my local system and no one else want to access it. So what?

Looking at the list of Matrix clients I think the Matrix devs support community developments quite well.
Related to “reproducible builds” you should explain what do you exaclty mean because we already have a different definition of “centralized networks”.

Repeating it does not make your overall quite unthinking statement more convincing, sorry.

Depends on what you mean with “decentralized”. Matrix it is a federated network. For me every federated network is decentralized as well but not every decentralized network is a federated one.
I think what you mean with “decentralized” is “peer2peer” and yes, Matrix is not a peer2peer network like Tox, Briar or Ring (which I would prefer to use if only one of these concepts would provide at least standard features for daily communication).

That is no argument. Software will always have security holes. The question is if the public is allowed to participate in fixing them.

Isn’t this a little bit like comparing “apples and oranges”? Busy is a “alternative content creation social media website utilising the Steem blockchain”. Matrix is an instant / collaboration messenger.